More than a decade ago, trainer Guy Walter saddled up Victoria Derby favourite Tie The Knot only to have to watch him come second to outsider Second Coming.He is hoping the reverse happens at Flemington on Saturday when Orca takes on Whobegotyou.Tie The Knot and Encounter (seventh) both started at $5 with Second Coming at $26, the same price Orca has been since the Derby field was declared.The Mark Kavanagh-trained Whobegotyou is odds-on but Walter is counting on the uncertainty of the 2500 metr

More than a decade ago, trainer Guy Walter saddled up Victoria Derby favourite Tie The Knot only to have to watch him come second to outsider Second Coming.

He is hoping the reverse happens at Flemington on Saturday when Orca takes on Whobegotyou.

Tie The Knot and Encounter (seventh) both started at $5 with Second Coming at $26, the same price Orca has been since the Derby field was declared.

The Mark Kavanagh-trained Whobegotyou is odds-on but Walter is counting on the uncertainty of the 2500 metres to bring him back to the field.

"Orca has done nothing but improve since he's been in Melbourne," the Sydney-based Walter said.

"He's unknown over 2500 metres but then again they all are.

"Whobegotyou is the outstanding three-year-old, he has a class edge on the rest of the field and he only has to stay the distance to win, but he has stay.

"We are approaching the race with a certain amount of confidence."

While Whobegotyou has won five races, Orca is still a maiden but Walter is encouraged by his progress since his third to the favourite in last Saturday's AAMI Vase at Moonee Valley.

"He is bred to stay, he looks like a stayer and anything can happen," he said.

Orca is owned by Terry Jarvis who is hoping for two Classic upsets within a week with Rocha to run in Saturday's Wakeful Stakes (2000m) ahead of next Thursday's Oaks featuring star filly Samantha Miss.

Rocha, who is also still a maiden, had a chequered run when sixth to Wakeful favourite Estee over 2000 metres at Caulfield on October 18.

"She got shuffled back at Caulfield but has improved since then," Walter said.

"I'm disappointed in her gate (12) because it makes it harder for her but I'm sure she is a stayer in the making."

Rocha is by Encosta De Lago out of Larrocha, winner of the 2003 South Australian Oaks over 2500 metres, the same distance as the Melbourne equivalent.